PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

News from the Pro Evolution / Winning Eleven gaming world, discussions from the posts on WinningElevenBlog.com and general PES & WE discussions

Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby Nik778899 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:14 pm

The PES Casual wrote:
Nik778899 wrote:
The PES Casual wrote:[

You only know what that is after seeing your dad round back that time. The hell was he wanting your maw and his maw doing that to him for?

Deary me.


Christ. Reaching for the victim card again.

You're the wee testicle who tries to kick it off daily with Daniel and others on here. Wrap it.

Here it comes...

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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby The PES Casual » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:21 pm

More right than you know.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby Nik778899 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:46 pm

The PES Casual wrote:More right than you know.

Perhaps you should be more placid?

Interesting take that you have today. I asked you a fairly straightforward question earlier which was met with a condescending post of which the majority didn't apply to me and you've since called me "pricky-nikky" and a "wee testicle".

But I'm here trying to kick it off, apparently :roll:
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby DESKPRO » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:07 pm

From 2010 interview

IGN: In the past, Pro Evo was regarded as a sim and FIFA a more casual game, but that's changing and both are becoming similar. Is that a conscious decision on your part?

Seabass: One side of that is true because I get the feeling that FIFA is trying to implement a lot of the stuff that we do, making it more of a simulation. However, we never set out to make PES a simulation -- that was never our intention. Basically, we want to satisfy as many users as we can, both core and casual gamers, and that has always been our goal. No matter what FIFA does that will always be our goal.

Adam said similar thing in recent interview
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby Nik778899 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:14 pm

DESKPRO wrote:From 2010 interview

IGN: In the past, Pro Evo was regarded as a sim and FIFA a more casual game, but that's changing and both are becoming similar. Is that a conscious decision on your part?

Seabass: One side of that is true because I get the feeling that FIFA is trying to implement a lot of the stuff that we do, making it more of a simulation. However, we never set out to make PES a simulation -- that was never our intention. Basically, we want to satisfy as many users as we can, both core and casual gamers, and that has always been our goal. No matter what FIFA does that will always be our goal.

Adam said similar thing in recent interview

Interesting, as it suggests that they sort of stumbled upon it and now they're stumbling away from it.
I know it's been much maligned but introducing sliders to alter the gameplay to your taste would be a step towards satisfying as many users as they can. The one slider they have currently works really well.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby Ameobinho » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:17 pm

It seems that Adam can only satisfy his shills with an invitation to some rigged event and then a proper seeing to that leaves them in awe of his amazing product :D
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby jameslv1986 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:27 pm

That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby DESKPRO » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:41 pm

jameslv1986 wrote:That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.


Hoping 2019 sees major improvements. Just played MyClub and changed to manager with 433 formation. Happened to get opponent with same formation and it was one of the worst games I've played in terms of enjoyment. Acres of space on the pitch and just kept playing through balls. Also hope that whoever does the testing at Konami spots the obvious flaws. How could they have played/tested the game before release and not realised that there were far too many unrealistic back heels? Also hoping that FIFA 19 improves their gameplay/animations because think they have nailed everything else.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby kernowdoc69 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:51 pm

jameslv1986 wrote:That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.


Agree. The single player game and comp ai is poorly implemented in pes 2018. Some of the worst pes gaming experiences that I have ever had. The tactical game is a mess atm, players turning and running away when it doesn't make sense etc. Will see if 2019 is improved for single players, but the priority seems to be elsewhere.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby Ameobinho » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:53 pm

kernowdoc69 wrote:
jameslv1986 wrote:That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.


Agree. The single player game and comp ai is poorly implemented in pes 2018. Some of the worst pes gaming experiences that I have ever had. The tactical game is a mess atm, players turning and running away when it doesn't make sense etc. Will see if 2019 is improved for single players, but the priority seems to be elsewhere.



The opposition needing a goal but not pressurizing you and letting you pass it round the back till the final whistle is just silly.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby bigol83 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:55 pm

DESKPRO wrote:From 2010 interview

IGN: In the past, Pro Evo was regarded as a sim and FIFA a more casual game, but that's changing and both are becoming similar. Is that a conscious decision on your part?

Seabass: One side of that is true because I get the feeling that FIFA is trying to implement a lot of the stuff that we do, making it more of a simulation. However, we never set out to make PES a simulation -- that was never our intention. Basically, we want to satisfy as many users as we can, both core and casual gamers, and that has always been our goal. No matter what FIFA does that will always be our goal.

Adam said similar thing in recent interview


Key words are "both core and casual gamers". That's not a bad thing. A game must sell, obviously they can't go, never went and will never go full simulation.

The balance Seabass is talking about was the good one, between arcade and simulation.

The problem is nowadays Pes is all about arcade and almost nothing is left of simulation. Now they are not trying to make a game for casual AND core gamers, now they are just trying to make the game as accessible as possible even sacrificing the last bits of simulation it still has, even alienating the core gamers that should be as important as casual gamers.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby bigol83 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:59 pm

jameslv1986 wrote:That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.


True. Pes true strenght was always to be easy to pick up and play but really hard to master. Recent Pes are nothing like that. One guy that has no more than one week of Pes gaming experience can destroy a long time Pes gamer just by picking the right overpowered team, setting passing assistance at maximum and just spamming the X button to chain several perfect passes.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby Matt10 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:08 pm

bigol83 wrote:
jameslv1986 wrote:That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.


True. Pes true strenght was always to be easy to pick up and play but really hard to master. Recent Pes are nothing like that. One guy that has no more than one week of Pes gaming experience can destroy a long time Pes gamer just by picking the right overpowered team, setting passing assistance at maximum and just spamming the X button to chain several perfect passes.


Spot on, the challenge factor isn't there, and when it is there, it's not in an enjoyable manner against the AI. When the challenge isn't there, which is about 80% of the time for me, it's because I'm receiving charity by the AI. The defenders running away in a 1 v 3 situation or running around and spinning trying to make up their mind, etc.

The thing is PES 5 and 6 were not great positionally. PES 6 actually has a pretty terrible defensive line behavior. However, it did have a sense of tenacity that gave you little time on the ball if you were to get near a player. With PES 16 thru 18, you are given space even when you are nearing a defending player. It feels automatic/scripted - and it doesn't try to hide that.

Scoring goals in older PES were more rewarding because the process to get those chances was challenging. Then the physics of the foot-to-ball contact was always accompanied by a sense of not knowing what type of animation will appear. This what made it so incredible. That feeling of not knowing what that player will perform - or if the combination of buttons were pressed, or if the animation/physics changed because they were pressured, etc.

In PES 16 thru 18, I know exactly what animation will show up. I know how hard and perfect that cross will be. I know that I will strike the ball on the laces. I know that when I beat the DMF, the defenders will turn their backs and run (like doing windsprints) to their preset defensive line.

I still play PES 18, always trying to figure out different ways to get that feeling back. It's not super far off either. That is the most frustrating part because that is the same theme for PES 16 and 17.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby DESKPRO » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:19 pm

Nik778899 wrote:
DESKPRO wrote:From 2010 interview

IGN: In the past, Pro Evo was regarded as a sim and FIFA a more casual game, but that's changing and both are becoming similar. Is that a conscious decision on your part?

Seabass: One side of that is true because I get the feeling that FIFA is trying to implement a lot of the stuff that we do, making it more of a simulation. However, we never set out to make PES a simulation -- that was never our intention. Basically, we want to satisfy as many users as we can, both core and casual gamers, and that has always been our goal. No matter what FIFA does that will always be our goal.

Adam said similar thing in recent interview

Interesting, as it suggests that they sort of stumbled upon it and now they're stumbling away from it.
I know it's been much maligned but introducing sliders to alter the gameplay to your taste would be a step towards satisfying as many users as they can. The one slider they have currently works really well.


You may be right. In another interview he mentions that PES 2010 was moving away from arcade like and back to simulation. Very interesting interview giving insights on their thinking at the time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW-SdNasOHM
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby kernowdoc69 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:50 pm

Ameobinho wrote:
kernowdoc69 wrote:
jameslv1986 wrote:That makes sense, been playing lots of PES 5, and it’s like mix of simulation and casual. But it forces you to think and play clever football. I think the AI for 2019 needs have more variation to keep the game feeling fresh.

The game neeeds more variation is passing, shooting, crossing etc and AI attack / defence. Atmosphere needs an overhaul; there is no sense of tense moments or the need for a goal etc from the crowd in pes 2018. The sad thing is that pes5 has more shooting variation than 2018, how anyone can defend the current shooting is beyond me.


Agree. The single player game and comp ai is poorly implemented in pes 2018. Some of the worst pes gaming experiences that I have ever had. The tactical game is a mess atm, players turning and running away when it doesn't make sense etc. Will see if 2019 is improved for single players, but the priority seems to be elsewhere.



The opposition needing a goal but not pressurizing you and letting you pass it round the back till the final whistle is just silly.


It is a pity that more funds were not allocated to the core game play instead of the pockets of retired legends.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby vital » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:53 pm

DESKPRO wrote:You may be right. In another interview he mentions that PES 2010 was moving away from arcade like and back to simulation. Very interesting interview giving insights on their thinking at the time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW-SdNasOHM


Bring back Seabass :lol:
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby Nik778899 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:52 pm

kernowdoc69 wrote:
Ameobinho wrote:
kernowdoc69 wrote:Agree. The single player game and comp ai is poorly implemented in pes 2018. Some of the worst pes gaming experiences that I have ever had. The tactical game is a mess atm, players turning and running away when it doesn't make sense etc. Will see if 2019 is improved for single players, but the priority seems to be elsewhere.



The opposition needing a goal but not pressurizing you and letting you pass it round the back till the final whistle is just silly.


It is a pity that more funds were not allocated to the core game play instead of the pockets of retired legends.

Couldn't agree more. That and the Champions League licence that they don't really do that much with.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby miguelfcp » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:05 pm

No era una broma, Daniel. Mi mensaje tiene feedback serio y honesto, que pena que no puedas ver eso. Cuando la escribi en inglés tu la ignoraste, ahora en castellano hiciste peor que eso. Debo aprender japones para que mi feedback sea llevado en serio?

I for once have to agree with El Casual de PES, even if his delivery contradicts his stance: it's just a game, no big deal. If they come out with an innovative product I'll support it, if not, life goes on and there are other games out there to play. The great thing about looking at PES or really any game with a "casual" mentality is that we're not forced to play a crap game if we don't want to, whereas the hardcore mentality just insisted on having to deal with sh*t out of brand loyalty alone.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby DESKPRO » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:05 pm

vital wrote:
DESKPRO wrote:You may be right. In another interview he mentions that PES 2010 was moving away from arcade like and back to simulation. Very interesting interview giving insights on their thinking at the time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW-SdNasOHM


Bring back Seabass :lol:


:lol: Guess it was the marketing talk at that time. Alas I don't think they met their aims. I remember buying all the PES games for PES3 and they were awful, hardly played them. The delay input, animations etc. The PS3 era was the start of the decline.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 14)

Postby vital » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:23 pm

DESKPRO wrote:
:lol: Guess it was the marketing talk at that time. Alas I don't think they met their aims. I remember buying all the PES games for PES3 and they were awful, hardly played them. The delay input, animations etc. The PS3 era was the start of the decline.


The problems that led to that era are well documented, which were mostly about them not being prepared and Japan falling behind in general. I'm not convinced that the underlying football gaming philosophy was ever bad with Seabass, he just wasn't able to make the leap technically, and so I never quite understood why he was so unceremoniously shunned. I think his attention to detail and love for the more underappreciated aspects of football do shine through at the start of that interview. He cites Lazio, Foggia and enjoying tight defensive games, which tells you a lot. Despite the fact PES was never intended to be a hardcore simulation, he was "one of us" so to speak. I think it's a little sad that we will never get to see a modern football game with his philosophy and vision and attention to detail behind it.
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